Kevin Snodgrass is Vivo’s head trainer and has been a part of the team since the beginning. He joined us for a conversation to discuss his approach to exercise, how he became involved with Vivo, what qualities make Vivo’s trainers so remarkably effective, and why the definition of strength training for older adults needs to change.
Tell us a bit about your background?
I started in group personal training about 15 years ago. Early on, I was working with adults 40+ and seeing people who were experiencing a lot of chronic aches and pains, so I shifted my focus away from performance improvement into corrective exercise and rehabilitation (rehab). I worked in that field for about a decade before I met Eric (Eric Levitan, founder and CEO of Vivo).
How did you become involved with Vivo?
A client of mine introduced us. Eric approached me with his idea of creating a strength training program for older adults 55+, skewing more towards the 75+ population.
I did some research and realized that strength training for that population just didn’t exist. There were cardio exercises, seated workout programs, water aerobics, and recumbent bikes, but they didn’t satisfy the goal of building functional strength that people could use in a real-world setting. When I think about strength, especially in the context of my background in corrective exercise rehab, I think about the trunk first and building out strength from the core. Without the spine and hips being the central focus, you’re limited in how much strength you can build and produce.
Right away I realized that the overlap between working in corrective exercise and rehab and working with older adults as a general population was a Venn diagram. We took corrective exercise methodologies and integrated them into Vivo as our level system (Vivo has four levels to accommodate varying levels of function in members). We wanted people to be able to progress through exercises and used the approach of working with individuals in acute and chronic pain as our underlying foundation.
We wanted a program that focused on building strength straight from the inside out. There needed to be parameters about how to perform the exercises safely with older adults, and as I said, the programs simply didn’t exist. So, I became really intrigued by the idea. I started as a consultant with Vivo to help train the trainers and contribute to program design and methodology.
That’s where it started. We did our initial pilot program and had more success than I anticipated. I didn’t think it was possible to see as much improvement as we did, and that’s when I thought, okay, well, we’re on to something here. This is not just a cool idea that fills a gap in the market, but this will actually change people’s lives. We can give back levels of function that people have lost, which then translates into significant improvements in quality of life.
As we were building Vivo and moving from one pilot to launching multiple pilots, COVID hit. We had to pivot drastically and transitioned the program onto a virtual platform. We would not have done that had it not been necessitated for us, and looking back I can say that it was absolutely the right move.
Could you describe your role as the head trainer for Vivo on a day-to-day basis?
There are three major components of my role. Program design is the biggest because that touches the most people. I’m responsible for taking the knowledge from our trainers and the knowledge that we have gathered from years of trainer meetings and years of feedback and integrating all of this into the program that exists for our members. I’m a facilitator for lots of ideas from lots of terrific people.
Our trainers are at a minimum certified personal trainers (CPT), and many have degrees in exercise science or additional specializations and certifications in senior fitness and corrective exercise. I take the best pieces from each of these certifications and knowledge bases and years of experience and put them into a program on a virtual platform that will work for different individuals at different skill levels who have different levels of function.
The second part of what I do is train the trainers. We’re fortunate right now that we have a training staff that has been with us for years. When new trainers come on board, my responsibility is to make sure that they understand the key elements of Vivo and can execute those well to provide a consistently high-quality experience.
The third part of my role is working as part of the leadership team. I provide input and feedback from our trainers on what is possible and bring their ideas forward. As an organization, we’re constantly asking, Is this feasible? Can we execute that? Are we developing a program that fits our members’ needs? Can the trainers support this or that suggestion?
What differences do you see between strength training with older adults versus younger adults?
The biggest and most obvious one is that the goals are different. Adults between 25-55 generally have performance improvement goals. I want to get better at running. I want to reduce my 5k time. I want to learn a new skill like doing pull-ups. Body composition is another big driver. I want to lose weight. I want to look better in a swimsuit.
With an older population, goals may be less about performance improvement and more about real-world function and quality-of-life improvements. Many of our members come to Vivo because they were recommended by a doctor, or they have lost some level of function that they want to regain, or they are dealing with chronic pain that they want to mitigate.
In Vivo, the exercises replicate and mimic activities of daily living and functional real-world movements. The trainer’s job is to communicate that the movement is going to help you with function in the real world. So, the framing tends to be different in Vivo than it would be working with younger athletes.
However, I will say that when our members are with Vivo for a little while, they start to find things that they want to do and want to improve. They might say, I want to be able to walk a 5k without stopping or I want to lift heavier weights. How do I do this? We are seeing a shift toward more performance improvement goals among some of our members and that is exciting.
What qualities do you look for in trainers?
The X factor. In addition to certifications, personality is the biggest thing. Virtual training is so much harder than training in person, so we look for people who are flexible, smart, adaptable, and have an energy that can translate to the virtual landscape.
Back during COVID, when meetings switched to a virtual format, there were articles about how much harder virtual meetings are than in person. We don’t have data on specifically how much harder it is to train virtually, but as a trainer you have to be so much bigger in the virtual format. Your energy must be bigger. Your communication skills must be better and sharper to build relationships, and you must master different communication styles.
You must be able to communicate corrective cues, which is an incredibly challenging skill to master. For example, say someone’s full positional squat is off. We need to fix that without standing next to the person and positioning their knee where it should be. Our trainers must verbally communicate the adjustment and then set up a demonstration in such a way that as a member you can see the body part that they’re talking about and make the adjustment yourself. Members must be able to internalize the correct position and understand the instructions.
The same is true of the dual-task exercises. Our trainers must communicate why we’re doing a specific memory recall dual task (for example) and communicate how the task is going to help you in real life.
What’s your favorite aspect of working with Vivo?
The reach. When I started talking to Eric, one thing that was important to me was that if I was going to take on a new project, it needed to extend beyond myself—I wanted to have greater impact. With Vivo I’m experiencing that ten times over. Because we are virtual, we have global reach. I work with people every day across the country (and now internationally) that I would never have been able to positively affect without Vivo.
We even have family groups, including my own! My mom’s group was the very first Vivo group. It included my mom, my aunt, my mother-in-law, my aunt-in-law, and then a couple of people Eric recruited.
Is your mom’s group still going?
Yes, it is—four years and three months later!
Twice a week I’ve got their group and can check in with them to see how they’re doing. They get time together even though they live in different states. The social and community aspect of our sessions is very important, and I leave lots of space in class for us to connect. That was driven by Vivo being a product of COVID and people having lost that social connection.
We’re seeing that connection play out in groups of strangers as well. They’re becoming friends. You look forward to seeing your buddy even though you’ve never met them in person. That reach is tangible and real and it’s one of my favorite parts of Vivo. It’s just awesome.
Is there anything that you’d like to see change as it pertains to concepts around strength training for older adults?
First, the definition of strength training 100% needs to change for this population. There’s this idea that strength training means lifting heavy weights and building big muscles. That’s absolutely not the case.
The first pushback I typically get from someone is that strength training is not going to be for them because of this false conception. When we’re talking about strength training at Vivo, first and foremost we’re talking about improving daily function. No part of what I do is try to build bulky muscles with this population. It’s not going to be possible without some supplementation and it’s not what we do.
Another objection I hear is that people feel that they can’t do hard things. They think that strength training means they’re going to be doing push-ups off the ground or squats with weight. So, the second thing I hope that we can do with Vivo is show that there are exercise variations that are appropriate for you regardless of where you are today. Whatever your level of function, we have an exercise variation that is going to be appropriate for you—that’s our level system. Wall push-ups, for example. That is a level one exercise, and many people don’t even know that such options exist.
I would like people to understand that we have intentionally built a strength program that offers solutions and flexibility with the goal of improving daily function.
Anything else you’d like to add?
Vivo is bigger and better than I thought possible when I started, and it’s been awesome to be a part of it. We took this idea that was basically—I want to do strength workouts with my mom—and have turned it into an evidence-based program that research institutes are saying is an effective intervention for chronic conditions. It’s very cool. I’m absolutely a better trainer and a better person for being a part of this.